Hello Atheists... Are You Thinking?
Atheists claim there is no God based on a rational, logical, thinking approach to the question. But if an atheist really was rational and thinking, they would realize that as soon as they claim to be an atheist they have proven that a god exists. That is the only logical, reasonable conclusion anyone can arrive at.
Although Christianity is logical and rational, I'm not saying that Christianity or the Bible is needed to arrive at this conclusion. The claim of atheism, standing on its own, is a claim that god exists -- and it is a statement that the person making the claim of atheism is not rational.
Why?
Because to claim atheism is to claim that you are omniscient... a claim that you know everything. A claim of having all knowledge. To know that God does not exist means that you have to know he does not exist anywhere beyond our solar system. An atheist must know every detail about everything in our galaxy in order to know God is nowhere in our galaxy. They need to know everything about the physical universe to know that God exists nowhere in the universe. They need to know everything about everything that exists outside of the universe to know God does not exist in a spiritual realm or fifth dimension or wherever. In order to know that God does not exist a atheist is claiming to know EVERYTHING. Who is the only one who can know everything? God. So an atheists' claim to be an atheist is a claim to be god themselves, and thus it is a claim that god exists. It's a claim that contradicts itself.
A rational person can be an agnostic. An agnostic is a person who claims to not know whether there is a god or not. That is a rational claim. So if you don't know whether there is a God or not, is it not worthwhile to find out more? Because if there is a God, and you are going to be judged by that God when you die, it is very important to learn about that and understand it now... because when you die it is too late.
Although Christianity is logical and rational, I'm not saying that Christianity or the Bible is needed to arrive at this conclusion. The claim of atheism, standing on its own, is a claim that god exists -- and it is a statement that the person making the claim of atheism is not rational.
Why?
Because to claim atheism is to claim that you are omniscient... a claim that you know everything. A claim of having all knowledge. To know that God does not exist means that you have to know he does not exist anywhere beyond our solar system. An atheist must know every detail about everything in our galaxy in order to know God is nowhere in our galaxy. They need to know everything about the physical universe to know that God exists nowhere in the universe. They need to know everything about everything that exists outside of the universe to know God does not exist in a spiritual realm or fifth dimension or wherever. In order to know that God does not exist a atheist is claiming to know EVERYTHING. Who is the only one who can know everything? God. So an atheists' claim to be an atheist is a claim to be god themselves, and thus it is a claim that god exists. It's a claim that contradicts itself.
A rational person can be an agnostic. An agnostic is a person who claims to not know whether there is a god or not. That is a rational claim. So if you don't know whether there is a God or not, is it not worthwhile to find out more? Because if there is a God, and you are going to be judged by that God when you die, it is very important to learn about that and understand it now... because when you die it is too late.
Labels: atheism, salvation, Who Are We
posted by BrickBalloon
Read This Post In Our: Christianity in America Blog Archive
9 Comments:
It appears you're adding onto the definition of atheism.
OED:
atheism
n noun disbelief in the existence of a god or gods.
As you can see here, it is not "a claim that you know everything," but acknowledging what you don't believe in.
You're confusing 'atheism' with its subgroup of 'strong atheism' (also known as positive atheism or gnostic atheism). A strong atheist is one who does make the claim that they know there is no god.
On the other hand, 'weak atheism' (aka negative or agnostic atheism) neither knows there is a god nor believe in one.
I suggest reading
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Atheist_vs._Agnostic for some more info about belief vs knowledge.
Based on my experience, the VAST majority of atheists that I encounter are weak atheists (nothing like the one you describe in your post)
Thank you for your comment Sam. I appreciate your taking the time to write.
What you are doing is what I've seen many atheists do when cornered, try to play word games and use that to refocus the conversation on a peripheral subject that has nothing to do with the actual topic. Let's not do that. The common use of the word "atheist" is: "someone who denies the existence of god." I put this in quotes because it comes from the Princeton University Dictionary. If I ask anyone on the street, this will be the definition they will use and how they understand atheism.
Someone who does not know if there is a god, nor do they believe in a god, is called an agnostic.
You are correct, the definition of atheism does not say an atheist claims to know everything. But the only way anyone can make a claim that there is no god, and have a rational basis for that claim, is if they know everything. If you don't know everything, then you cannot rationally claim there is no god. Because god may exist outside the scope of your knowledge. You can only make the claim that within your knowledge there is nothing that indicates to you a god exists. That makes you an agnostic.
This makes anyone's claim to be an atheist an irrational claim. If you truly believe there is no possibly of god existing anywhere, the only way you know that is to know everything about everything in and outside of the universe. The only one who has that kind of knowledge is god. Thus to make the claim there is no god, you are thus making the statement that you have the characteristics of god... which is a claim that you are god.
Yes, I know there is no overt statement "I am god." Nor is anyone actually thinking that. But all this means is that atheists have not thought through what they are claiming in a rational, logical way.
By the way, this is exactly what the Bible says we'll do, and what Satan has offered mankind for 6,000 years... that man can become like god. We are lead to believe that we are responsible only to ourselves instead of being responsible to the God who created us.
Knowledge and belief are two different things. The terms atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive. Theism and atheism are about what a person believes; agnosticism and gnosticism are about what a person claims they do or can know.
One can be an gnostic theist or a gnostic atheist...or... an agnostic atheist or agnostic theist.
According to BrickBalloon, he/she cannot rationally claim that there are no unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons. I guess BrickBalloon believes in everything.
Anonymous: If you are making the claim that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist, I ask for your evidence that they exist.
God has provided evidence that He exists. In the Bible He has given us a description of Himself, along with explaining where we came from, who we are, why we are in the situation we are in, and where we are heading. Is there a similar record claiming that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist?
No.
God has shown Himself through His interactions with humanity and the physical world.
For example, God has provided evidence that He exists through His creation. Just as when we see a painting we know there must have been a painter that painted the painting, when we see creation we know there must be a creator.
God has interacted with the physical world, telling us what would happen before it happens. Can anyone do that with 100% accuracy as God has done? No.
God interacts with people, changing their lives... changing their hearts in a way that nothing and no one else can do.
Is there even a claim or any evidence of interaction with the physical world by unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons?
No.
So, unlike God, there is no reason to believe that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist.
You may choose to ignore the evidence or to not believe the evidence or to not see the evidence. But it's still there for you to see when God chooses for you to do so. And that's okay. God does not force anyone to believe in Him.
God, by His nature of being all powerful, all-knowing, and the creator of everything, can exist anywhere or everywhere. This requires universal knowledge in order to know He does not exist. So a claim that there is no God is a claim of complete knowledge of everything in the universe.
Are you claiming that unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons exist somewhere in the universe that we can't examine? What is your basis for that claim? In any case, should that be the claim I am an agnostic on the existence of unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons somewhere in the entire universe. And I'm not concerned about it. They do not effect anything related to humanity. But God does.
Unlike unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons God created you in His image. Because of that you are accountable for your actions to God and will be judged on the day you die. Whether I believe in unicorns or invisible, fire breathing dragons is of no consequence. Whether you believe in God or not has eternal consequences making it a much more serious question that deserves serious consideration.
The bible is not accurate, after 25 years of Christinanity,
I was ready to die I had FAITH ?
Science and reason.
But I'm not an atheist.
Science and reason have led me to Deism.
Nothing in nature is left to chance
Everything comes from the Divine.
Never find fault in things
You do not really understand.
The enemy you wish to destroy
Often proves to be your truest friend.
Posted by Cindy at 9:39 PM
Truth Seeker TP
http://truthseekerjournal.com/1997archive/124_1/46_shoulders_paine.shtm
It can't get better than that. Thomas is the man of reason and universal thinking. I really admire him.
CHECK OUT GOOOH.COM cin3@me.com
Thank your for your comment MyYouthSolution.
Deism is an interesting conclusion. God made everything, set it in motion, but He's no longer involved. Yes, it is also true that if you believe in Deism you must reject the Bible, because God is very active throughout history, even to acting ever moment to hold the universe together. (Stated in both the Old and New Testaments.)
So who is God? How do you know anything about God? Can you know anything about God?
Yes, you can... but you will come right back to the God of the Bible. You cannot even argue against the Bible without using Biblical truths because the laws of logic and uniformity of nature, as well as morality, all come from God... a God who created everything just as He described for us in the Bible.
brickbaloon i really want to believe you...im swaying in your direction....i want to convert to Christianity it seems to lead a very promising life..but everywhere i turn im confronted with roundabout answers...could you please explain to me the best way you can, what causes you to belive in god. without ever mentioning the bible at all or anything written in the bible ive heard it all...i need something different to confirm my faith can you please help me ??
Hi...
Its our thinking that what we think, no one can force us to think there is God exist or not. God is our feeling. Atheist always confuse us. Thanks for sharing this.
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